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	<title>Comments on: Cap &amp; Trade Is Not A Market Solution</title>
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	<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/</link>
	<description>for the well-being of mankind</description>
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		<title>By: Renee DeKlotz</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee DeKlotz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-620</guid>
		<description>We strongly urge you to vote “NO” to theCap &amp; Trade Climate and Energy Bill.

The final Climate and Energy Bill passed the House so diluted with special interest bribes that It defeats what was represented to be its original objectives.  Have you read the over 1,000 pages of the bill on which you are asked to sign?   Cap &amp; Trade is a prime example of the legislation which has been rushed through from the inception of the economic downtown with dire consequences to your constituents whom you are elected to represent.

While avoiding the underlying question,  the proposed legislation would have a trivial effect on global warming while imposing substantial costs to the American householders.   While avoiding the underlying question,  the proposed legislation would have a trivial effect on global warming while imposing substantial costs to the American householders.   The Congressional Budget Office estimates that its resulting increase in consumer  required to achieve l5% CO2 reduction will raise the cost of living initially by $1600 per year per household with future costs significantly higher.    Higher prices will relate to every manufactured goods, companies moving offshore, resulting in fewer jobs and higher unemployment  WITH LITTLE  EFFECT ON GLOBAL WARMING.

What effects does Cab &amp; Trade have?

1.	It interferes with positive solutions to Global Warming/  Solving global warming means solving how to keep most remaining fossel fuels in the ground. 

2.	 It squanders resources and ingenuity on the wrong things. t squanders resources and ingenuity on the wrong things.    S. Korea, the firm of Rhodia has profited 30% more selling carbon credits with NO GAINS. 

3.	It requires knowledge we don’t have and interferes with positive solutions to Global Warming..  Progressive California calls carbon training a “charade to continue business as usual.” – more construction of new fossel fuel fired power plants instead of focusing on building a green economy to provide new jobs for power communities. 

4.	It is based on faith not experience.  Carbon trading - the centerpiece of the Kyoto Protocol and Europe’s response to climate change – the EU Emissions Trading Scheme has FAILED.

5.	Cap &amp; Trade is Antidemocratic.

WHO BENEFITS?  Who Benefits?  Big fossel fuel using companies; hedge funds, commodities traders, banks and law firms, i.e. ENRON, WorldCom, LTCM and the subprime mortgage market.  

WHO LOSES? Once again – the American people.  Cap and Trade is likely to be the biggest tax in American history.

Fred and Renee DeKlotz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We strongly urge you to vote “NO” to theCap &amp; Trade Climate and Energy Bill.</p>
<p>The final Climate and Energy Bill passed the House so diluted with special interest bribes that It defeats what was represented to be its original objectives.  Have you read the over 1,000 pages of the bill on which you are asked to sign?   Cap &amp; Trade is a prime example of the legislation which has been rushed through from the inception of the economic downtown with dire consequences to your constituents whom you are elected to represent.</p>
<p>While avoiding the underlying question,  the proposed legislation would have a trivial effect on global warming while imposing substantial costs to the American householders.   While avoiding the underlying question,  the proposed legislation would have a trivial effect on global warming while imposing substantial costs to the American householders.   The Congressional Budget Office estimates that its resulting increase in consumer  required to achieve l5% CO2 reduction will raise the cost of living initially by $1600 per year per household with future costs significantly higher.    Higher prices will relate to every manufactured goods, companies moving offshore, resulting in fewer jobs and higher unemployment  WITH LITTLE  EFFECT ON GLOBAL WARMING.</p>
<p>What effects does Cab &amp; Trade have?</p>
<p>1.	It interferes with positive solutions to Global Warming/  Solving global warming means solving how to keep most remaining fossel fuels in the ground. </p>
<p>2.	 It squanders resources and ingenuity on the wrong things. t squanders resources and ingenuity on the wrong things.    S. Korea, the firm of Rhodia has profited 30% more selling carbon credits with NO GAINS. </p>
<p>3.	It requires knowledge we don’t have and interferes with positive solutions to Global Warming..  Progressive California calls carbon training a “charade to continue business as usual.” – more construction of new fossel fuel fired power plants instead of focusing on building a green economy to provide new jobs for power communities. </p>
<p>4.	It is based on faith not experience.  Carbon trading &#8211; the centerpiece of the Kyoto Protocol and Europe’s response to climate change – the EU Emissions Trading Scheme has FAILED.</p>
<p>5.	Cap &amp; Trade is Antidemocratic.</p>
<p>WHO BENEFITS?  Who Benefits?  Big fossel fuel using companies; hedge funds, commodities traders, banks and law firms, i.e. ENRON, WorldCom, LTCM and the subprime mortgage market.  </p>
<p>WHO LOSES? Once again – the American people.  Cap and Trade is likely to be the biggest tax in American history.</p>
<p>Fred and Renee DeKlotz</p>
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		<title>By: uneedtogetreal</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-592</link>
		<dc:creator>uneedtogetreal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-592</guid>
		<description>cap and trade...green movement...war on drugs are programs that have already been proven not to work and will lead to our further demise...the cost...the corruption...and the lack of any progress they have caused is totally unbelieveable and could soon bring us to a point of no return...the so called green movement want work even if the entire world were on board...which they are not...this planet and all on it have been changing and evolving for millions of years with or without mankind...very narsacistic to think we have much control in the long run...only real hope is what got us to this point...research and development which requies power and energy...without it we would still be cave men and would have no concept of green other than to eat it...war on drugs for nearly 50 years and because of this giant worldwide blackmarket we have created by keeping very cheap products at very hi prices by keeping them illegal more money than all the bailouts combined has been spent and is continuing at over 25 billion each year...monsters all over the world have been created and these drug dealers and lords are powerful and worth billions with which to create more corruption in both law enforcement and politics...money enough to buy and control many large legal entities just like Al Capone and all the gangsters created during prohibition before alcohol was made legal...but these drug people make those gangsers look like leomonade stands...more drugs available today than 50 years ago and easier to get anywhere in the world...has created much more crime and swolen U.S.prison populations to unbareable numbers...make drugs leagal and the blackmarket dies with all related problems...we can then control and tax drugs like alcohol...if legal or not people that buy drugs will use them and commit crimes if highly priced like they have been doing for 50 years...just because legal are you going to buy them...me either and most others will not either...we will have the same problems that we now have with alcohol but an unbelieveable amount of money saved and the current much much worse problems that we have not been able to solve which in fact are getting worse and is leading us into totally uncontrolable problems in the near future because of all the money we are spending and the bad guys are making...tear down this blackmarket that we are responsible for maintaining...use all of our resources for power and energy to fund our Research and developement...wisely as possible but not under some false cap and trade or go green idiotic program that will cripple our ability to find real solutions that will work to help our problems...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cap and trade&#8230;green movement&#8230;war on drugs are programs that have already been proven not to work and will lead to our further demise&#8230;the cost&#8230;the corruption&#8230;and the lack of any progress they have caused is totally unbelieveable and could soon bring us to a point of no return&#8230;the so called green movement want work even if the entire world were on board&#8230;which they are not&#8230;this planet and all on it have been changing and evolving for millions of years with or without mankind&#8230;very narsacistic to think we have much control in the long run&#8230;only real hope is what got us to this point&#8230;research and development which requies power and energy&#8230;without it we would still be cave men and would have no concept of green other than to eat it&#8230;war on drugs for nearly 50 years and because of this giant worldwide blackmarket we have created by keeping very cheap products at very hi prices by keeping them illegal more money than all the bailouts combined has been spent and is continuing at over 25 billion each year&#8230;monsters all over the world have been created and these drug dealers and lords are powerful and worth billions with which to create more corruption in both law enforcement and politics&#8230;money enough to buy and control many large legal entities just like Al Capone and all the gangsters created during prohibition before alcohol was made legal&#8230;but these drug people make those gangsers look like leomonade stands&#8230;more drugs available today than 50 years ago and easier to get anywhere in the world&#8230;has created much more crime and swolen U.S.prison populations to unbareable numbers&#8230;make drugs leagal and the blackmarket dies with all related problems&#8230;we can then control and tax drugs like alcohol&#8230;if legal or not people that buy drugs will use them and commit crimes if highly priced like they have been doing for 50 years&#8230;just because legal are you going to buy them&#8230;me either and most others will not either&#8230;we will have the same problems that we now have with alcohol but an unbelieveable amount of money saved and the current much much worse problems that we have not been able to solve which in fact are getting worse and is leading us into totally uncontrolable problems in the near future because of all the money we are spending and the bad guys are making&#8230;tear down this blackmarket that we are responsible for maintaining&#8230;use all of our resources for power and energy to fund our Research and developement&#8230;wisely as possible but not under some false cap and trade or go green idiotic program that will cripple our ability to find real solutions that will work to help our problems&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: That's the point</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>That's the point</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-573</guid>
		<description>The whole point of the cap and trade IS to force an &quot;arbitrary&quot; reduction of CO2 emissions. Additional cost is inevitable. If we use up all the oil or destroy the ecosystem, the cost will be unfathomable. The science behind carbon dioxide and global warming is not nuclear physics, these are simple, demonstrable principles. 

The world&#039;s governments could simply set emission limits for each industry and reduce them every year, fining anyone who doesn&#039;t comply.  This would NOT be a market solution, but pure regulation.  Cap &amp; Trade however, allows for each emitter to choose whether they want to invest in cleaner energy, or pay the real cost of those emissions.

That&#039;s something else Murphy completely ignores: the consumer (and even those NOT consuming) are already paying a price. It is an abstract price in the ecological effects of excess CO2 emissions. By assigning a market-driven cost, the emitters - and their consumers - are being held responsible for those costs.

And yes, it is market driven. Let&#039;s take Murphy&#039;s example of permits being issued for 90% of the previous year&#039;s emissions. If everyone reduces their emissions by 90%, then the extra cost is ZERO. Companies suddenly have an incentive to reduce their consumption. For example, it is extremely easy to turn off computers at night, but many companies have little incentive to enforce this.

The U.S. already ran a cap &amp; trade program for SO2(sulfur dioxide) in the 90s. Immediately, businesses cut down emissions and fell way below the threshold. For the next few years, they actually INCREASED emissions because they still had some flexibility, before the restrictions clamped down again. The total cost to the industries was between 20-30% of expectation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole point of the cap and trade IS to force an &#8220;arbitrary&#8221; reduction of CO2 emissions. Additional cost is inevitable. If we use up all the oil or destroy the ecosystem, the cost will be unfathomable. The science behind carbon dioxide and global warming is not nuclear physics, these are simple, demonstrable principles. </p>
<p>The world&#8217;s governments could simply set emission limits for each industry and reduce them every year, fining anyone who doesn&#8217;t comply.  This would NOT be a market solution, but pure regulation.  Cap &amp; Trade however, allows for each emitter to choose whether they want to invest in cleaner energy, or pay the real cost of those emissions.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s something else Murphy completely ignores: the consumer (and even those NOT consuming) are already paying a price. It is an abstract price in the ecological effects of excess CO2 emissions. By assigning a market-driven cost, the emitters &#8211; and their consumers &#8211; are being held responsible for those costs.</p>
<p>And yes, it is market driven. Let&#8217;s take Murphy&#8217;s example of permits being issued for 90% of the previous year&#8217;s emissions. If everyone reduces their emissions by 90%, then the extra cost is ZERO. Companies suddenly have an incentive to reduce their consumption. For example, it is extremely easy to turn off computers at night, but many companies have little incentive to enforce this.</p>
<p>The U.S. already ran a cap &amp; trade program for SO2(sulfur dioxide) in the 90s. Immediately, businesses cut down emissions and fell way below the threshold. For the next few years, they actually INCREASED emissions because they still had some flexibility, before the restrictions clamped down again. The total cost to the industries was between 20-30% of expectation.</p>
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		<title>By: Buckrun Outdoors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#34;Cap &#38; Trade Is Not A Market Solution&#34;</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator>Buckrun Outdoors &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#34;Cap &#38; Trade Is Not A Market Solution&#34;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-571</guid>
		<description>[...] Read the rest. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read the rest. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: virtues</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>virtues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-34</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: senate legislation</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>senate legislation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 06:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-32</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cap and Trade Is Not a &#34;Market Solution&#34; &#124; Work On Credit</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap and Trade Is Not a &#34;Market Solution&#34; &#124; Work On Credit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 02:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-26</guid>
		<description>[...] 4, 2008    I explain here. I really don&#8217;t understand all the mainstream economists going along with this stuff. Even if [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 4, 2008    I explain here. I really don&#8217;t understand all the mainstream economists going along with this stuff. Even if [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bluey Blog &#124; RobertBluey.com &#187; links for 2008-06-04</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluey Blog &#124; RobertBluey.com &#187; links for 2008-06-04</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-25</guid>
		<description>[...] Cap &amp; Trade Is Not A Market Solution - Robert P. Murphy, Institute for Energy Research As the U.S. Senate debates climate change legislation this week, many have proclaimed the virtue of its “cap and trade” system as a “market solution” to reducing carbon emissions. Nothing could be further from the truth. (tags: global_warming congress)     &#160;Posted at 1:30 PM in On My Radar  &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;Save to Del.icio.us   &#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;Share on Facebook [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cap &#38; Trade Is Not A Market Solution &#8211; Robert P. Murphy, Institute for Energy Research As the U.S. Senate debates climate change legislation this week, many have proclaimed the virtue of its “cap and trade” system as a “market solution” to reducing carbon emissions. Nothing could be further from the truth. (tags: global_warming congress)     &nbsp;Posted at 1:30 PM in On My Radar  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Save to Del.icio.us   &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Share on Facebook [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cap &#38; Trade Is Not A Market Solution</title>
		<link>http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/2008/06/04/cap-trade-is-not-a-market-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Cap &#38; Trade Is Not A Market Solution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/?p=142#comment-24</guid>
		<description>[...] Digest wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptMurphy is an economist with the Institute for Energy Research. He received his Ph.D. in economics from NYU. He has written and lectured extensively on the benefits of market-oriented policies. Funding for the Institute is entirely &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Digest wrote an interesting post today onHere&#8217;s a quick excerptMurphy is an economist with the Institute for Energy Research. He received his Ph.D. in economics from NYU. He has written and lectured extensively on the benefits of market-oriented policies. Funding for the Institute is entirely &#8230; [...]</p>
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